Andrew Lovato - Host, "Our Santa Fe," Thursdays 6:30-7:00pm
Dr. Jennifer Herbold - Superintendent, New Mexico School for the Deaf
Interpreters Julie Nagel and Cathrael Hackler
Producer/Engineer Adrian Quintana
Andrew:
Good evening and welcome to Our Santa Fe. I'm your host, Andrew Lovato, and each week I explore the City Different’s past, present, and future with my fascinating guests. It is my pleasure to welcome Dr. Jennifer Herbold, superintendent of the New Mexico School for the Deaf. Welcome to the show, Dr. Herbold.
Dr. Herbold:
Hi!
Andrew:
Oh, it's really great to have you here. I just want to let our listening audience know that Dr. Herbold is deaf and there'll be a bit of a lag time and she is using interpreters, so that's why you'll be hearing a couple of different voices. So let's start off by talking about the wonderful school for the deaf here in Santa Fe. The beautiful New Mexico School for the Deaf Campus is an icon in Santa Fe, sitting near the intersection of Cerrillos Road and St. Francis Drive. Dr. Herbold, can you give us an overview of the services the school provides to the deaf and hard of hearing in our state?
Dr. Herbold:
Sure. Well, first of all, the New Mexico School for the Deaf, it started initially many years ago, just as a school. But of course, over time everything evolves, and we are more like a statewide agency now. We serve about 700 deaf and hard of hearing students all around the state, and our beautiful Santa Fe campus, we serve about 150 students. About sixty of those are residential students, and the rest are day students, so they commute. If it's in about an hour's drive. If it's within that radius, then they are commuters and we provide a range of students. We also have a preschool in Albuquerque, Las Cruces and Farmington. Albuquerque is quite large. We have our own building there. In Santa Fe, we have a full program from 18 months old all the way through high school graduation. We have OT's, PT’s, audiologists, speech therapists - and all of that is in addition to our regular instruction. We follow all the, you know, state standards and guidelines, and we're proud of our dual credit program. Some of our students come here to the Santa Fe Community College in fact, and earn credit here while they're earning high school credits. We have a really fabulous academic bowl team and - knock on wood - but in the past, I don't know, 15 years. We've always made it to the nationals and we go to Washington, DC for nationals, so we're very proud. And comparatively speaking, in terms of the US, we are one of the smaller schools for the deaf because our population of course in New Mexico is relatively small, but we serve 80% of the deaf and hard of hearing students all over the state in some fashion, compared to California, who serves 1000 children. But that's only 15% of the population of California. So we're very proud of what we do.
Andrew:
And that's amazing. 80% is an incredible number.
Dr. Herbold:
It is.
Andrew:
And you have such a beautiful campus. I have to say the architecture is just so beautiful and it's so well maintained and it’s such a clean location. You do a wonderful job just making it beautiful.
Dr. Herbold:
Thank you. I think our grounds crew would love hearing that. And with the buildings also, we have several historical buildings on our campus. Some are newer, of course, and we have our theater, the James A. Little theater. Last May we planted 108 new trees on our campus as part of a project with three New Mexico, that organization. So we have about 600 trees in our campus now. You know, part in the back of the campus, we don't really maintain it's over by the Acequia Trail. But yeah, we are very proud of our campus. I think it's important that kids grow up in an environment where, you know, they feel they belong.
Andrew:
Well, you know, the school has a rich history in New Mexico being established way back in 1887. Can you tell us a little bit about the school's past?
Dr. Herbold:
Yeah. We actually changed our founding date, so in 1885 - and the reason for that is that a deaf man named Lars Larson.
Andrew:
Oh, OK.
Dr. Herbold:
He became deaf later in life. He lived in Wisconsin originally, and he decided, I guess he just wanted an adventure. So he rode horses with a buggy and traveled through the country. And ended up in New Mexico. And found that there was no school for deaf children in New Mexico when he was very concerned about that. And at that time, it wasn't - New Mexico wasn't even a state yet! So he literally went to towns all over New Mexico, knocking on doors, asking families if they've heard of any deaf children in the area. And then he compiled a group of about 5 deaf children and established a school with his wife. And he fought hard to get initial money. Then in 1887, the territorial legislature recognized and then started funding the school. Initially it was out of his own pocket. So that's why we need to - we feel we need to recognize his effort and that the school was actually founded in 1885. But 1887 is when the government recognized it. And it's actually the first New Mexican public school.
Andrew:
What an incredible story!
Dr. Herbold:
Yeah, really is. And you know, we've just been here for many years, and his dream was to teach all deaf and hard of hearing children statewide and give them equal opportunities and give them language. And I think that dream is still true today.
Andrew:
Well, you are the first deaf woman to serve as Superintendent in the school's history. Before that, I understand you worked at the New Mexico School for the Deaf since 1999. Is that correct?
Dr. Herbold:
Yes.
Andrew:
So you must have a deep connection with the school.
Dr. Herbold:
I do, definitely. You know, I say the New Mexico School for the Deaf is my first real job. I grew up in Washington, DC in the metro area, but my parents were both from the West. My mom was from Arizona, so we were always in the Southwest. I went to New Mexico and Arizona. Mostly Arizona, but really both states throughout my childhood. So the southwest was not new to me, and my mom always knew when she retired, she wanted to head back to Arizona. So I tell people I followed her part way. I just stopped in New Mexico and didn't make it the rest of the way. But I love it here. It really feels like it fits who I am. And I started off as a teacher. I was an English teacher at NMSD for middle school. And then I went back to the University of Arizona to get my PhD in literacy acquisition. And reading and writing can be hard for anyone but especially deaf children, who may not have had equal access to English. So that's really my area of interest. And then I just continued, I just didn't leave. I took a year leave of absence and then came back to NMSD and continued as a literacy specialist and then it kind of fell into administrative work. And I just kept going. And now, until this Superintendent position opened a couple of years ago and I went for it.
Andrew:
Great. Well, I'm sure everyone's so happy that you have decided to serve the School for the Deaf.
Dr. Herbold:
Well, I hope so!
Andrew:
Ha, ha. Well, you know the School is dear to my heart because my grandparents on my father's side both attended the School for the Deaf. Going back a little bit in time, actually my grandfather at the age of eight was admitted in 1896. He was the 2nd Pueblo Indian admitted he was from San Ildefonso Pueblo. And my grandmother, Rafelita Lovato, she was admitted in 1925 at the age of 19. They married in 1931. And Jose, my grandfather worked at the school in the dairy. He helped take care of the cows and gather the milk and along with a lot of other little things. He worked from 1915 to 1955, and then he never left. From 1955 to 1967, he was the unofficial mailman, the greeter, the messenger, until his death in 1967. So he was there at the school for 71 years. So you have a little ways to go to catch up to him.
Dr. Herbold:
Yeah, I don't know. That's a long ways to catch up. But I think that's true for many of our students. For many deaf people generally. The school for the Deaf is a Cultural Center. It's a place they call home. It's the only place where all around them, they can have full access. They can go say hi and have a conversation with anyone. And even though a lot of our students do use spoken language now, it still feels like home for them. It's an easy place of communication. I don't think a lot of people realize that they have to work to understand people and to communicate, and it's kind of tiring sometimes. And so that's why it's so important to have a place that it becomes home for so many students. There are a lot more opportunities, and now with the American Disability Act, of course they're interpreting services and all kinds of things like that. So now more and more are flying the nest, and we're very proud of that. But we also have people who stay a really long time because they love the school. And not just deaf children, but often we have employees too, who are hearing and their children come and work at our school. It just becomes a part of their heart and sometimes we have generations of employees there and that's still true today.
Andrew:
It sounds like an extended family.
Dr. Herbold:
Oh, definitely. We are definitely a community and a family. And the dairy? That reminds me, that's a piece of property that we still own. So it's where we kept our cows and we call it the Dairyland. And it's kind of goes to Tierra Contenta, that neighborhood and capital high school and it still belongs to the School for the Deaf.
Andrew:
Right.
Dr. Herbold:
And we're proud of it and the history and we love it. It's a rich part of our history.
Andrew:
Well, you do. So many things many people think about the residential students and the life that they have there. But you provide services that go far beyond resident students. Can you talk a little bit about things such as early intervention? Working in family homes and working in the states public schools?
Dr. Herbold:
Yes, definitely. We really have three major branches. Our instruction program - really, our instruction program, as I said before, we serve 1/3 Of our students in the residential program so 2/3 are day students for instruction and then we have our early intervention program, which I love. They work with the babies. They start sometimes a few weeks old all the way up to six years old in early intervention. And they go and they support families. You know, I can imagine it would be very shocking to find out that your child is deaf, and not knowing what options are available. There's a lot of information out there. And a lot of technology out there, and everything is - it's just a lot to navigate. So we really pride ourselves on providing a fair, balanced amount of information. And you know there's Cochlear implants, there's hearing aids, there are good options out there. And sometimes a hearing aid or device isn't an option for some as it is for others. So we really encourage bilingual education. You know, becoming bilingual is a good thing. Having more than one language is a great thing to communicate. You don't know what your child will pick when they grow up. So we really encourage families to think about that, to think about ASL as well, to make sure that the child has the best of both worlds. So our parent advisors, they go around. We have parent advisors in Ruidoso. We have parent advisors [in] all parts of the state. And they go into homes, they develop connections with families, they teach them how to communicate with their child, how to read stories to their babies. You know, read books. And then we also have our outreach program. And our outreach program - you know, coming to the School for the Deaf is not an option for some families. Some families don't like the idea of sending their child so far away, and that's understandable. So, our services also include us going out to their school districts, observing their teachers, providing feedback, providing support, observing their interpreters or their speech language pathologists, helping their audiologists. I mean, we just provide a variety of services: professional development, Et cetera in the school districts. Children often do end up wanting to come to our state based program here in Santa Fe and a large part of that reason is just what I was talking about – it's because it really does end up feeling like home. It's easier to talk with folks, they can gossip, right? They don't always have to use an interpreter. They want to be a kid, you know? and so sometimes, you know, they just want to get into the drama and “somebody broke up with somebody” and all this. But that's normal. That's developmentally normal and that's our goal, is to give children a normal developmental experience. And you know, they go home every weekend - a long time ago, in your father's day, they stayed at the School until a holiday – a major holiday. But now all the kids go home every single weekend and so we really value bringing families to our community and making sure that they stay connected with their families as well.
Andrew:
Wonderful. That sounds like a great way to approach going to school To have that balance between school and family probably is very important. Well, your website has some wonderful information about the school and there was a line in there that I wanted to go over with you that I thought was just wonderful, and that is that you strive to make student lives more enriched by becoming lifelong learners; contributing to the society; becoming well-rounded, successful individuals; in an increasingly global society. That is quite a task for anyone, and I'm sure that your students probably - you see them growing from the time they're young ones to the time they get to middle school, high school, and just blossoming into these incredible individuals who are going to go out there and really change the world in a positive way.
Dr. Herbold:
You're right! That was actually written I guess maybe 10 or 11 years ago, and I think it's more true today than it even was 15 years ago. I was doing - I was speaking with the teachers, our instructional team, this last Wednesday. So sometimes I meet with them and and I was doing that last week and we were talking about, you know, what Is education today? Where are we going? You know, phones in the school, we have all information we could want in our pockets nowadays. And what is transformative education, where we go, where have we been? Really critical thinking skills are incredibly important, and it can be really hard, especially for many of our students whose families don't have much language communication with their students. Not at the level that we would want them to be. And you know, the families, try for sure, but there's a lot of things that happen. And so we have to really, as a school, teach world knowledge. You know, things that you might expect you would already know that, or parents probably explained it to them. Not often times, that's not always true. And so we have to explain those things. So really that critical thinking aspect, how we support them in acquiring those skills, we're really proud of what we do in that in that realm. Our after school program, our residential program, we really we value that 24/5 school experience. We really want to send them off into the world as contributors, you know, somebody can contribute to society. What that looks like, what their education looks like. I think that we are at a time of change in the world. And we really have to be thinking hard about what that means for our own students.
Andrew:
Well, the world is changing so fast. And technology is advancing at such a rapid rate that it seems invaluable for them to be able to access all of this. And to grow with the changes that are happening, I think you're absolutely right.
Dr. Herbold:
Yes, yes, we have. You know, this debate, it wasn't a bad debate, but we had a little bit of a debate about artificial intelligence and you know, how much do we want to allow students to use something like that? We want them to think for themselves and do we allow, you Know ChatGPT, you know, at the school. So there's a lot of things that are just changing incredibly fast.
Andrew:
Yeah, but it sounds like your school is really keeping their finger on the pulse of society and the world at the same time that you're offering education; that you're not simply going by the old standards, but continually trying to update and to keep current.
Dr. Herbold:
Definitely. It's so important. We have a lot of younger teachers that keep us on our toes. And you know, they bring a lot of innovation.
Andrew:
Yeah, well, you know, going beyond education, I often read in the New Mexican and other newspapers about the achievements of your athletes around the state here, and it seems like your sports teams are very successful. And you have some great athletes at the School for the Deaf.
Dr. Herbold:
Yeah, we do. We're very proud of our athletic program. We have, you know, standards sports teams that anyone else would have: basketball, cheerleading, volleyball, football, track. You know, a large part of the reason is that kids come to our school, especially when they enter middle school and high school - It's because they want to play on our teams. They want to be able to talk directly to their coaches, you know. Or be yelled at directly by their coaches!
Andrew:
Ha, ha. All right.
Dr. Herbold:
You know, and so, that experience of being on a team, I think that it really relates to education as well. Learning how to you know how to do teamwork, how to communicate well. Obviously communication on the field is important - or on the, you know, court. It's very different for deaf people in sports. Oftentimes you know, for example, volleyball, you know hearing girls will yell, “Mine, mine, mine,” you know. It’s volleyball! They're saying “I I want the ball. It's it's my turn.” Our students, our players have to wave their arms, you know? “Don’t touch this ball, it’s mine!” So there's a lot of things like that we have to think about. But our - Well, we have no school teams. We have elementary teams, but it's more like intramural after school, sports for the elementary students. But what we also do, and we're really proud of this again, is our academic teams. So we have no school battle of the books. We have academic bowl students. Sometimes we do do join robotics depending on the year, so there's a lot. We do do to keep the kids, you know, busy. I just had a conversation with one of our high school students last Monday. It was the first day of school and I like to welcome them and say hello to all the high schoolers. I had a conversation with them and we're talking about phones. And you know, because phones really transformed how they interact with one another, and not always in a good way.
Most of our issues honestly relate to phones these days - kids being upset because they saw something on their phone and somebody told this person that and it's really everywhere. It's all throughout public schools, and it happens in our school too, so we're trying to manage that. And I told the kids, you know, it might be time to really think about this, your own emotional well-being might be worth more than looking at your phone. We have to put these phones away. And there's lots of other challenges that other schools face that we face as well, but we have great sports teams, great academic programs. And all that, you know, we want to play a key role in helping kids, you know, think about how they use technology.
Andrew:
Well, it does not sound atypical at all, the challenges that your students have compared with students and all of the schools in New Mexico.
Dr. Herbold:
Yeah, what I try to emphasize is that our students are normal. They're just the same as any other student. They just communicate a different way. And because they communicate in a different way, that's why we exist, right? That's why we're there. We want a place where the kids can arrive and they can ask for help and they can share information or explain something or talk amongst themselves or explain how they're feeling without having to worry about how will I communicate. They just - they can be who they are.
Andrew:
That's great. It's so exciting. The work that you do and and how you support families across the state. Thank you so much for what you do. Well, I want to thank you for chatting with us for a few minutes here. I wish we had at least another half hour to talk about the school. There's so many questions that I have that I don't have time to ask you. But maybe we can do this again sometime!
Dr. Herbold:
Sure thing, I'd love to.
Andrew:
Great. Well, I've been speaking with Dr. Jennifer Herbolt, Superintendent of the New Mexico School for the Deaf. And again, thank you for being on the show and best of luck for you and the New Mexico School for the Deaf in the future.
Dr. Herbold:
Thank you. We're looking forward to a wonderful year.
Andrew:
Fabulous. Well, please tune in next Thursday at 6:30 PM for my show. This is Andrew Lovato, Wishing you a great week. So until next time, buena suerte!